Read the summary and watch or listen to the interview here: https://www.crowleylawllc.com/podcasts/from-lab-to-patient-garage-to-market-with-philip-crowley/
Introduction to the Podcast
Voiceover: Welcome to the From Lab to Patient Garage to Market podcast with your host, Phil Crowley. In each episode, we will discuss professionals serving the tech startup market and the various issues of importance to those companies. You can find this show on all the major platforms, including YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on our website, Crowleylawllc.com. Now, here’s the host of From Lab to Patient, Garage to Market, Phil Crowley.
Philip Crowley: Hi, and welcome to our podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Philip Crowley: I’m delighted to have as my guest today, Jo Halliday, who is the Chief Executive Officer of Talking Medicines, one of our clients, and a client that has recently won a very prestigious award, the gold level award for artificial intelligence and data analytics from PM 360. PM 360 is one of the prime periodicals for pharmaceutical marketing professionals, and having Talking Medicines recognized among the many companies working in artificial intelligence is a significant achievement for the company and Jo Halliday and her team. Welcome to our podcast, Jo.
Jo Halliday: Thank you, Phil. Good to be here
Understanding Talking Medicines and Its Mission
Philip Crowley: Jo, for our viewers, could you talk a little bit about Talking Medicines? What does it do? The idea of artificial intelligence has such mystery around it for some people, but you seem to have created products and services that people want. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Jo Halliday: Of course. Talking Medicines is a data tech company. We have created an interface called DrugGPT, driven by artificial intelligence, machine learning, natural language processing, and LLMs. We didn’t enter the market in 2024 with a new AI product and just add LLMs. We’ve been working on this for years. We address a problem that anyone in the pharmaceutical industry will recognize: people not taking their medicines. 50 percent of people worldwide, no matter the country or statistic, just don’t take their medicines. It’s a 250 billion pound problem for the industry. What we do is help decode some of that through data. We listen to, understand, and decode the voices of patients and healthcare professionals in the real world to try and solve the puzzle of why people don’t start or stay on their medicines, and what happens in the real world that influences these behaviors. So, in a nutshell, that’s what we do.
Challenges in Medicine Adherence
Philip Crowley: Jo, can you give us some examples of the reasons people don’t take their medicines? It seems that if a doctor prescribes medicine to make me feel better, I would take it. Why are people reluctant to do that?
Jo Halliday: A lot of it comes down to a lack of understanding. We have AI underpinning our solution, and natural language processing is a big part of our tech toolkit. This means understanding the way patients speak and perceive medicines, which is very different from the way they are prescribed, often filled with medical jargon and complex names that most people can’t pronounce. There is a mismatch between patients and doctors, between patients and the industry in terms of communication. That’s the crux of what we’re about—trying to bridge the gap between patients and the pharmaceutical industry and the agencies that market to them.
The Journey of Talking Medicines
Philip Crowley: Talking Medicines, as you mentioned, has been at this for a long time. It’s not that you just appeared when ChatGPT came on the scene. How long have you been working on this?
Jo Halliday: We’ve been around for about 10 years now, and we’ve only ever worked in this domain. We are specialists in life science and data science, specifically in using tech to solve the problem. We’ve had a few phases as a company. In the beginning, we were more of a tech consultancy using augmented reality, and we transitioned into data six years ago. We’ve been building very complex models and training our own models to understand the patient voice, the HCP voice (healthcare professional), and influencers. This isn’t something you can do with off-the-shelf kits, so a lot of our work has involved creating and training our own data models to classify and extract intelligence from messy, unstructured data, like social media and research transcripts, which is very different from the clinical data that the industry traditionally relies on.
Philip Crowley: I see. You mentioned that it took you 10 years to become an overnight success.
Entrepreneurship Insights and Advice
Philip Crowley: Some of our viewers are probably budding entrepreneurs thinking about taking the path you’ve taken. Can you help them understand some of the trials, pivoting, and challenges you’ve faced in getting your company to this successful point? It seems to me, from our prior discussions, that there’s a lot of grit, determination, and a refusal to give up in the process of being a technology entrepreneur. I think it would be valuable to hear about those experiences.
Jo Halliday: Entrepreneurship definitely has its ups and downs. I’m a co-founder along with Elizabeth Fairley and Scott Cray. There’s always a debate about how many founders you should have. My advice is definitely more than one, because it’s a very lonely journey if you’re doing it alone. Two is balanced; three adds a bit of healthy tension to keep everyone accountable. For us, it’s been about finding product-market fit as quickly as possible. People talk about failing fast, and it’s really important. We’re based in the UK, in Scotland, and we have an office in Jersey City to serve the pharma agencies in New York. The mindsets between the two markets are very different. We’re lucky to straddle both now, with strong positions in both. The UK can be more difficult for entrepreneurs because there’s less belief in founders and less money available. There’s a lot of pressure to prove everything before you can raise money, which is hard when you’re just starting out. In the States, there’s more of a belief in entrepreneurship, and it’s easier to find champions for your cause.
In the early days, the journey can be difficult. There’s a big angel support system, but they often offer low valuations and small amounts of money, making it hard to get the runway you need. However, our journey has allowed us to develop domain knowledge and understand what works and what doesn’t. You have to be ready to act with instinct, rely on numbers, run lots of experiments, and have a good board behind you. It’s a long journey, and most people talk about the end part, but few discuss the beginning, which generally takes longer than expected.
Building a Strong Board and Network
Philip Crowley: You mentioned that one of the aspects of your success was having the right board behind you. How did you recruit people for your board? And I’m also curious how you attracted Al Sisco, who runs Turn PLC, a publicly owned venture capital firm in London, to make a big investment in Talking Medicines and join your board.
Jo Halliday: One of our early meetings was with someone who became our chairman. Putting a chair in early is so important. A chair generally doesn’t come in until you also have a finance director. So appointing a chairman, a finance director, and then finding an accountant and a lawyer puts you in the right place. That was the beginning of us doing the right thing, even when we were small. Monthly board meetings are essential to maintaining governance, and that structure has been crucial for us. Governance and quality have always been top priorities for us, and a lot of that comes from having that structure early on. I speak to other entrepreneurs who don’t have boards, and it’s a mistake that can be their undoing. Having that structure helps with due diligence and funding rounds, attracts bigger institutional funders, and generally keeps us on the right track. We were introduced to Al Sisco at Turn through one of our early private investors. Networking and talking to people is crucial to finding the right investors, and that’s how we made the connection with Turn. Turn has been a perfect fit for us, and having Al as our chairman has been hugely beneficial.
Navigating the Investment Landscape
Philip Crowley: You seem to imply that you have to select your investors carefully. Is there a certain amount of due diligence you did on your investors to make sure they were the right fit? Who are the right kind of investors from your perspective?
Jo Halliday: Investors hold a lot of power, and it’s easy to think you’re going to get investment when you’re not. Investors rarely say no outright; they’ll say they’ll keep you on their list, but that doesn’t mean investment is coming. Knowing if an investor is at the right stage for you, if they’re committed and able to invest, is crucial. We probably went sideways early on, thinking we’d get a Series A round earlier than was realistic. We had many conversations that shaped our thoughts and positioning, but it’s better to focus on growing revenue because without it, you won’t get the investment. Working on your business should come before chasing too many investors. If your business is solid, the investment will follow.
Philip Crowley: What benefits do you see from the advice you get from your board and the accountability you have to go back to the board with news on how you’re doing?
Jo Halliday: It’s a positive relationship. The right board can help with contacts, investment, and many other positive aspects. Accountability as an executive leadership group to the board ensures we’re always improving. It’s not just about the board; we also have advisors and mentors, including you, Phil, who have supported us on our journey.
Philip Crowley: It sounds as if the board is a source of strength for you. It’s not just the money that the investors bring, but also the contacts and advice that help you test your marketing plans and connect with other financing sources as you grow.
Jo Halliday: Absolutely. We’re also fortunate to have the Scottish government as one of our investors, which is a benefit of being based in Scotland. Different investors bring different skill sets, and we’ve got a great mix that has worked to our advantage.
Philip Crowley: And you recently moved into the Barclays Bank Eagle Labs Accelerator. Can you tell us about that experience and what the difference is? I remember you had a wonderful set of offices, and now you’re in a hot house with other innovators trying to commercialize their ideas. What’s that like?
Jo Halliday: This shift really links back to COVID and post-pandemic changes in how we work. Pre-pandemic, having an office was a given. We had an office where everyone came in every day. Then the pandemic happened, and we recruited from different places, which expanded our footprint. We realized we now have a virtual team. We’ve worked hard to maintain a balance between virtual and face-to-face interactions because in-person meetings are crucial, especially for younger staff who need mentoring. Post-pandemic, our office usage changed. People weren’t coming in every day, and when they did, it wasn’t always on the same days as others. We realized that the company is wherever we are—whether in London, New Jersey, or Glasgow. We moved into Barclays Eagle Labs, where many tech entrepreneurs in Glasgow are based, and it’s been great. There’s always a buzz, great coffee, lots of space, and facilities like podcast rooms. It’s become a real technology hub in Scotland, which has a strong tech and data science community, so it’s been great for our team.
Philip Crowley: Scotland certainly seems to be on the upswing. I’d like to take a moment to talk a little bit about Crowley Law. We are a boutique law firm focused on serving our clients, especially life sciences and technology entrepreneurs. We’re passionate about helping them realize their dreams, taking great ideas from the lab to the marketplace or from the garage to the bedside, enriching the lives of thousands or even millions of people. I’m a former physicist who transitioned to law to have a more immediate impact, and working with people like Jo and her team is incredibly fulfilling. We have free resources on our website, Crowleylawllc.com, including our ebook, The Top 10 Causes of Failure for Technology Startups and How to Avoid Them. We’re here to help, so if you have issues or would like to contact us, give us a call or send us an email.
Philip Crowley: Now, Jo, even in the United States, it’s challenging for women to succeed in the technology space. In the conservative environment you described in the UK, it may be even more challenging. What experiences have you had, and what advice can you give to other women entrepreneurs pursuing pathways in the tech space?
Jo Halliday: It’s a challenging environment for anyone, regardless of gender. The stats show that less than 2 percent of VC investment goes to women. Elizabeth and I have always focused on the market gap and what we’re doing rather than who we are or where we come from. There’s a lack of legacy networking, mentors, and female investors, which can be discouraging. We’ve worked hard to stand out and fight for our place. In Scotland, things are improving with more government attention on female entrepreneurship, and there are new initiatives being set up. But there’s still a big gap—if 98 percent of funding is going to men, there’s a problem. On a day-to-day basis, we don’t feel particularly challenged by it, but the lack of role models and mentors is a significant issue.
Philip Crowley: It sounds like you and Elizabeth can be role models for other female entrepreneurs.
Jo Halliday: We try to give back because everyone’s experience is valuable. Younger entrepreneurs might find it even harder. We’re experienced entrepreneurs, so we’ve learned to take the knocks and keep going, realizing it’s not because we’re female, but because of the challenges of entrepreneurship.
Philip Crowley: You mentioned earlier about putting together a team of founders. You’ve attracted a team of very competent people around you.
The Importance of Company Culture
Philip Crowley: How do you establish, particularly in a virtual environment, the kind of company culture that provides mentorship, makes employees feel part of a great enterprise, and ensures everyone is pulling in the same direction?
Jo Halliday: We’ve worked hard on culture. Some aspects come naturally, while others require effort. During COVID, we did a lot of R&D on our AI models, and we’ve kept some of the practices we developed then. For example, we still do our open office on Wednesdays, where everyone dials in no matter where they are. It’s topic-led and helps maintain a sense of connection. We also have Friday fun at 4:30 PM UK time, with quizzes and activities to bond the team. We hold town halls where everyone comes to Glasgow quarterly. We’re very good at using tech within the company, with protocols and systems that support communication. We regularly check in with people to see how they’re feeling, ensuring we’re all aligned. We’ve developed a unique way of working that’s mostly virtual, but we prioritize in-person interactions for team bonding and leadership.
Philip Crowley: Your discussion of a team and teamwork seems very apt in a startup environment. You’ve got people with various capabilities who can focus on their areas, which takes something off the plate of the founders who are otherwise wearing multiple hats.
Expanding to the U.S. Market
Philip Crowley: You’ve identified the U.S. as a place where you want to have a presence. Despite remote communications, you made the decision to have a physical and corporate presence in the U.S. Can you explain why?
Jo Halliday: We’ve grown out of Scotland, with our data science and engineering teams based there. But our end buyer is the healthcare advertising agencies working on behalf of pharma companies in New York, Philly, and New Jersey. While we can do a lot from the UK, meeting people, networking, and being present in the U.S. is crucial. Breaking into the New York market was huge for us, and it was partly due to our physical presence there. We come over to the U.S. often to network, sell, and manage customer relationships. Having an office in Jersey City is an advantage because it gives us a base. We feel very welcome here, and the time difference between the UK and U.S. is manageable. The psychological barrier is bigger than the physical one.
Philip Crowley: You seem to be enjoying your spot in Jersey City, with its convenience for getting into New York City and to Newark Airport for direct flights to Scotland.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Philip Crowley: Jo, what do you like most about what you’re doing?
Jo Halliday: I’m drawn to challenges. I love the freedom to operate when you’re genuinely creating a new market. We don’t always get it right, but when we do, we know it. I enjoy seeing the team get it right because when we succeed, it’s a result of our collective efforts. The ups and downs are all part of the learning journey, and that’s what I enjoy about entrepreneurship.
Philip Crowley: That’s great. I appreciate your determination and the success you’re achieving. Thank you for joining us today. Please remember that Crowley Law LLC is available online with helpful information. Contact us if you think we can help you.
Voiceover: You’ve been tuning into the From Lab to Patient Garage to Market podcast with your host, Phil Crowley. You can find this show on all the major platforms, including YouTube, LinkedIn, Facebook, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and on our website, Crowleylawllc.com. If you found this information helpful, please subscribe, like, leave a positive review, and share with others.
